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Friday, July 23, 2004

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Comments

Joan

Unfortunately, the "acting white" name calling does not end when you leave the school play ground. When you excel in the corporate or entrepreneurial world you also get that same "insulted complement". I call it an insulted complement because when you outperform white males and are mistaken for being "white" until one meets you face to face...they think it is a complement "Oh! I had no CLUE you were a black woman...I just saw your district's performance ranking in the company newsletter and assumed you were a white boy!" Or you get the insulted complement when one says "You need to put your photo on your site or on your business card because people think you are white...folks would be so happy to see a black person running such a professional operation". So it could become a never ending hampster wheel if you let it consume you. One must perform to his or her best for God and let man stand back in awe.

Rashad

Just do what you feel is you because that is what got you that far in the first place, forget all them there not important any way you vcan tell them all to go to hell because they are juast trying to keep you down that is what most black people do best

Carlton F.

I'm a black senior at a gifted (predominately white) high school, and the "acting white" phenomenon still occurs. What's more tiresome today is that my white peers feel justified in calling me white just as much as my black peers. Perhaps it's a product of the increased exposure whites have to black culture through popular media, but I've been seriously accused of acting white more by white kids than by blacks.

I liken it to what The Liminal Liberal was saying. It's not that academic achievement is a direct manifestation of acting white, but through academic achievement (at least as far as gifted ed goes) one slowly becomes assimilated into the culture of academic achievement which is much more influenced by white culture than black. So when someone says you're acting white you're honestly confused, because you didn't think you were acting black or white, just naturally.

And as far as the individual Rhymes quoted in his post (“Funny, I grew up in a lily-white neighborhood and we made fun of kids who had good grades too.”), there's a difference between being ridiculed for being a (white) nerd in white culture and being ridiculed for being a white (nerd) in black culture. Think about it.

Christopher Brown, IV

I sent my comments below directly to Dr. Rhymes, but have not yet received a response. My observations are as follows:

1. Popular Culture

As I said previously, there's a difference between equating scholastic achievement with nerdiness and whiteness, unless you believe nerdiness and whiteness are synonymous.

The fact is that in all races, there are children who are teased for being nerds. Further, no race has a monopoly on nerds.

2. Curriculum

Is there any evidence that shows that students correlate academic achievement with the type of curriculum that's offered? I'd be shocked to learn that grammar and high school students would be cynical or astute enough (depending upon your perspective) to believe that because a school's curriculum is Eurocentric, non-European students who excel academically are somehow "whiter" than those who don't.

It isn't necessary for a child to be of European descent in order to excel in learning about Europe, its history and its historical figures. Put another way, children of European descent don't have an advantage over children of non-European descent when learning about figures such as Napoleon, for example. Conversely, children of African descent don't enjoy an advantage over non-black children when learning about Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandela or W. E. B. DuBois.

Issues of cultural bias notwithstanding, a student's responsibility is to absorb the material that is being taught. Familiarity with or exposure to African or African American figures can't be offered as a legitimate reason for academic underachievement, or as an explanation for why some students excel while others don't.

3. Honours and Advanced Placement Classes

If it's anywhere that the equation of scholastic achievement and whiteness may have some traction, it's here. The sad reality is that more black students aren't placed in higher-level classes because they aren't qualified to be. I reckon the biggest reason for this is because they weren't adequately prepared for higher-level course in grammar school, and a collective indifference (if not disdain) regarding education among blacks--particularly poorer ones.

This past year, I taught AP Literature and Composition. Without exception, my black students were hard put to write a complete sentence in standard, grammatically sound English. Instead of delving into critical theory, I found it necessary to review the parts of speech--to a class of seniors. My lone white student was no Ernest Hemingway, but she regularly outperformed her black classmates. I can only guess that she had adequate preparation in grammar school, because she'd taken the same classes in high school that her black classmates had taken.

It bares mentioning that none of the black students who sat for their AP exam the year prior passed it.

4. Ethnicity of Teachers

A student isn't relieved of his responsibility to absorb the material because the teacher is of a different racial or ethnic group. If race or ethnicity is a barrier in the classroom, I submit that it's at least partially because of issues the student has. I'm sure there are white teachers who make their prejudices known, be it consciously or subconsciously, but again, I'd be shocked to learn that students are cynical or astute enough to establish a correlation between their teacher's attitudes and scholastic achievement. Beyond that, there are black children who equate scholastic achievement with whiteness who've been exposed primarily to black teachers, administrators and principles. What would be the reason for this?

There is an obvious disparity between black and white k-12 teachers can be explained -- if not justified -- by the disparity between blacks and whites in America. Blacks make up roughly 13 percent of the population, so even by the statistics you quoted, blacks are well-represented among the teaching ranks.

Many black students do equate scholastic achievement with whiteness. I say this based not only on my personal experience, but based on the experiences of many of the people I've spoken to about the perils of growing up black and intelligent.

As to why this is so, I believe much of it has to do with class bias and jealousy: the age-old schism between the haves and the have nots.

Jeans

I think it's even more pathetic when white people use terms like "oreo" and "wannabe" but at the end of the day, it's just another fear tactic.

Chris Wyckoff

As a middle school teacher, I hear the comments in the halls and see the results in the classroom. When my students do free write exercises, I speak with each one individually and then we talk about their impressions collectively. Almost everytime, the individuals who do the best writing are not inclined to share in front of the class because of the way they will sound when they read (when using appropriate English grammar). When I confronted the class about the issue, I had to encourage them not to be hesitant because of peer pressure and talk to them about the need to use correct grammar (the king's English) Many of my students feel the pressure to "stay black" and not show that they are sharp students.

Denise

I skipped a grade in elementary school, so even though I was a year younger than everyone in my class (William Ray School in Hyde Park-Chicago) I still got the highest grades in the class. Not one day went by when someone didn't say I thought I was white, or I was "acting white."

The Liminal Liberal

I think Rhymes is simplifying the matetr a bit. I was one of those kids who was gifted and black in the 1980s. While I was never out and out called an oreo for achieving, I was called all sorts of names as a result of the things that came with my success. Good grades got me into mostly white, accelerated classes. I became friends with the white kids who I spent most of my time with. I even started liking some of the music and television shows they watched. I started using some of the slang they used.

Forgettign that we are all products of our environment, black kids I didn't know would stop me on the street and say I was acting white or dressing white or talking white. So did my parents.

These are the same parents who late sent me to boarding school in Vermont, and then complained some more.

black kids who achieve do get called names, and are derided by the community. But not for achieving. They get villified for not being the same person they were BEFORE they were given so many opportunities.

In my experience, anyway.

Dr. Edward Rhymes

Hello I'm Dr. Edward Rhymes and I approve this message. I thought it would be fun to add my two cents to the discussion about my article.

I have received a few e-mails from my African-American brothers and sisters who have been the targets of teasing and had been told that they were "acting white." In my article I never stated that it didn't happen, only that I have never heard it being stated as such (I grew up on the South Side of Chicago- Ida B. Wells Projects). However, I would say that it seems that we as African Americans are quick to take ownership of any negative characterization of ourselves. I think that before we lay claim to these labels, we should really investigate their validity (and if we come to the conclusion that it is true, so be it). This disregard of education and intellectualism is not unique to the African-American community (and I have taught more White students than I have Black students). As an educator I have not only been engaged with students from my school at school, but in the community as well (I coached boxing at a local community center, coached football, and attended many functions in which the students were involved). In other words, I was an extremely involved teacher. One of the highlights of my teaching experience is when, out a faculty numbering (not including staff) over 300 members, I received the honor of being chosen as one of two faculty members to be the Special Guests at the Class of 2003 Junior Banquet at the high school I taught at (the 2003 class had over 700 students at the time).

My students would usually open up and say things around me that they wouldn’t say around other teachers. And yes, I have overheard many conversations that I wasn’t “supposed” to hear; but I have yet to hear a conversation amongst black students refer to other black students who excelled academically as “acting white” (such realities do exist). What I will say is this, that success of any kind (including academic) breeds jealousy and envy--- this hold true in any community; Black, White or otherwise. As a matter of fact, if the Christian scriptures are to be believed (and I believe) then the very first murder was the result of Cain's jealousy of Abel's success. In the white community they may say dork, geek, braniac etc.; in the Black community: "acting white (in my opinion that points to a disdain for what they consider white, not education in and of itself). To quote an individual who read my article: “Funny, I grew up in a lily-white neighborhood and we made fun of kids who had good grades too.”


I did not strive to make my personal experience the thrust of my argument --- my personal experience laid the foundation, but my essay was full of data and statistics that are readily available to anyone who will just take a look. I will repeat what I said in the article: We get so caught up in the "what" that we fail to ask the "why." I am very aware of the difficulty that comes with being teased and taunted because of one's intellectual abilities (I went through it too), but we should never make our personal experience "the" standard of truth (nor should we allow our painful experiences to blind us to the whole picture).

I have found that as an educator and parent that our young people don't usually have a problem with us disagreeing with them, but rather when we refuse to at least try to understand them or where they are coming from. As stated in the article, I offer no excuses, but I do propose explanations.

jiva goswami dasa

Dr. Edward Rhymes' years as an educator in all of which he has never heard " ... any student equating scholastic achievement with whiteness ..." as a personal observation, does not add up to statistical significance.

If Dr. Rhymes says he has not heard any student making such equations, I believe him, and I think I understand what he might mean: When it is announced that XX is going to college, Brothers and Sisters applaud, not disparage.

But when you sit down to play Bid Whist, or are a peer of the students, as opposed to even an ear to ground administrator ... When on your walk, you pass a porch where folks are sitting ... When you sit or are chosen to sit at a particular table in the cafeteria ...

There places and more do you hear the disparage: "Do you think you are white?"

Key: "If you can understand me," (and I believe this) "then don't correct me."

‘Course the impression you are making is up to you, and it always pays to be multilingual.

I think.

jivajiva (President Club Services)

Golasso

If I had a nickel for every black person who told me I was acting white because I was in Honors classes in the late 80's, I would be a millionaire. I cannot speak to what happens now, but that was my daily experience.

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